HealthIMPACT Live Presents: Banishing Burnout with Best in Class Technologies - Empowering the Hybrid Healthcare Workforce
Originally Published: April 7th, 2022
YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/ept_VXPj5Cg
Exhausted and overwhelmed clinicians are reaching a breaking point as the COVID-19 pandemic enters another phase. Technology developed to improve treatments and clinical data collection has become an additional burden to bear. Technology must align with clinical workflow – not the other way around. Information overload is contributing to the burnout of exhausted clinicians already overtaxed by the ongoing COVID-19 epidemic. Examine solutions to address clinician burnout and among those that have been implemented:
Jonathan Ripp, MD, MPH, Chief Wellness Officer, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Vivian Pender, MD, President, American Psychiatric Association
Anthony Giordano, VP, Growth Marketing, Sermo
Anthony Giordano: Everyone welcome to Banishing Burnout with best in class technologies empowering the hybrid healthcare workforce. I'm Tony Giordano VP of growth marketing at SERMO. I'm joined here by two of the leading voices on this topic, Dr. Vivian Pender who was President of the American Psychiatric Association and also Dr. Jonathan Trip, who was chief wellness officer at Mount Sinai. SERMO is a global community of physicians who we recently crossed out 1 million Member mark adopters come to surmount to contribute to medical research, improve their practice, and talk with their peers and safe environment you'll hear some of our clips throughout this session about. The topic of course is burnout. So turn it over for some introductions from both of our panelists here today and just start off by an addition to your role and responsibilities, please just share one thing about how you personally recharge. Dr. Pender I'll pass it to you first.
Vivian Pender: Thank you, thank you so much for inviting me to talk here. So I am, in addition to being president of the APA i'm a clinical professor of psychiatry at weill cornell medical college in New York City and I divide my time between teaching medical students residents psychoanalytic candidates at Columbia University and I do some international research on global mental health and and I right and as much as possible and have a private practice in New York City and what I do what I have been doing personally is i've been watching football only, NFL football.
For some reason I they seem to be the best I have never watched football in my life, but it it, for me it provides a kind of release of of. Having to process all of the information that's coming through to me online in every form, you know, I was just. In a in a on another call, and I said, you know my phone is like connected to my hand and so i'm just constantly getting. Data So for me football I don't I don't even understand how it works, but they are amazing athletes and they're willing to put themselves through great risk but but that's it just lets my mind relax.
Anthony Giordano: Okay, well, I hope you picked a good team to root for sometimes it can be recharging.
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Anthony Giordano: Sometimes watching football if you're too much of a fan can cause you to burn out too, so I think.
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Vivian Pender: I don't know.
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Anthony Giordano: Good good.
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Anthony Giordano: Well, thank you and welcome thanks for joining us.
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Jon Ripp: Well, thanks, so much so, I just want to extend my appreciation for the opportunity to be with you all today it's great to be here.
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Jon Ripp: So i'm john rip i'm the chief wellness officer and Dean for well being in resilience the icon school medicine mount Sinai.
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Jon Ripp: And that's not a health system also in New York City and i've been in the role for for a few years i'm a practicing general internist and.
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Jon Ripp: See myself primarily as as that that's that's how I define myself, first and foremost as as a physician i've been doing that for for quite a while and.
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Jon Ripp: really got started in this as a researcher so i've done a number of studies, looking at burnout initially in resident physicians and.
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Jon Ripp: and beyond, and still do quite a bit of research and actually have done quite a lot, looking at the psychological toll of coven on our workforce.
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Jon Ripp: I also co chair group called charm the collaborative for healing and renewal and medicine, which is a professional home for well being leaders throughout the country.
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Jon Ripp: So, in terms of what I do so, even though I live in New York City I try to be outdoors and in nature, as much as I can, I find that that really helps restore.
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Jon Ripp: restore me restore my soul and so actually most days I get to commute to work through by walking through central park.
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Jon Ripp: So, even in in the heart of an urban jungle I find time to be outdoors and that's on a day to day basis, whenever I whenever I can and get a moment I did try to get away further further afield and spend time in nature, I find that to be really nice Thank you.
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Anthony Giordano: that's great thanks for sharing and, as a fellow new yorker central park is definitely a treat in the middle of the city and.
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Anthony Giordano: to enjoy taking some trips in nature, there so really does help to to recharge and energize we're going to start off with a short clip from a few Community members within sermo talking about the problem of burnout.
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Anthony Giordano: Okay yeah you hear about some of the more systemic.
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Anthony Giordano: issues and concerns, and you know really multiple factors that impact this problem of burnout so we're going to start broad and and you know, really.
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Anthony Giordano: get down to one of the things that that's probably runs in the background of a lot of the the media reporting on this and how it's described, do you really do feel the concept of burnout is a cultural or generational shift.
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Anthony Giordano: Where it is just kind of part of culture, or is it the result of a true change and how much.
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Anthony Giordano: and
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Anthony Giordano: And how we work, or is it both Dr pender i'll start with you.
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Vivian Pender: Well, first of all, I think we should define burnout and and make sure we're all on the same page that it really has to do with workplace stress it's defined by the World Health Organization.
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Vivian Pender: And it has three dimensions of feelings of energy depletion and exhaustion increased mental distance from from the job even disparaging or cynicism related to the to the work and sometimes we do.
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Vivian Pender: Work product work efficacy, so it specifically refers to phenomena in in the occupational context.
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Vivian Pender: And it's in the icd 10 and then in more detail in the icd 11 so the international Classification of Diseases that's used by physicians.
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Vivian Pender: So that said.
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Vivian Pender: Currently.
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Vivian Pender: There is so much online.
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Vivian Pender: information, as well as requirements that I think that it is worse now because people are expected to be available 24 seven essentially in in a lot of work places I know I know I I am frequently in that situation and.
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Vivian Pender: I was up at 530 this morning to to be on a on a TV Program.
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Vivian Pender: Speaking about mental health but, but even you know evening meetings weekend so so that that idea that and, especially, that this is during coven.
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Vivian Pender: That the the routine of of a work day has a finite work day has kind of disappeared.
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Vivian Pender: I don't I do most of my work virtually so I don't go into my office, I can see patients virtually and and teach and you know have meetings virtually but, but so.
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Vivian Pender: I don't commute any anymore to work, I used to.
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Vivian Pender: get up in the morning yeah have breakfast and then get in my car or walk somewhere to to work now you know I go to my Home Office and and turn on my computer and then just can go You know, as I said, all day into the evening on on weekends and so there's no buffer.
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Vivian Pender: That I used to have, and I, and I think that's true for a lot of people but i'll stop there.
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Jon Ripp: yeah I totally agree with that and i'm so appreciative Dr pender framed you know sort of these these constructs these terms.
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Jon Ripp: And I think sometimes you know and i'll give a little more framing before answering your question directly about the cultural generational aspects of this but.
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Jon Ripp: You know so oftentimes we use terms, and they can mean different things to different people burnout is has a is a define syndrome it's been well studied for for decades and so.
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Jon Ripp: it's important that that when we are talking about burnout I mean those of us that study it, you know we have a clear definition in mind.
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Jon Ripp: But sometimes for those who are receiving information about burnout or reading studies, it can it can even resonate poorly with with folks because they say you know I.
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Jon Ripp: i'm not burnt out, you know, the system is burning me out and burnout is clearly something that's defined as an organization as a an occupational.
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Jon Ripp: or system level level issue and it doesn't it shouldn't be interpreted as placing blame on an individual or a deficiency in resilience set that sort of thing.
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Jon Ripp: And there, there are many ways to to capture the well being of a community of a workforce of a healthcare workforce there's a lot of folks to talk about moral distress.
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Jon Ripp: As another element that that's that work here that's kind of eroding our overall well being certainly we've seen that encoded when dealing with.
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Jon Ripp: With circumstances that were unprecedented but you know levels of trauma literally experiencing the trauma of you know so many so many patients so many sick patients dying without.
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Jon Ripp: A particular in the beginning, without without you know, having any treatments, so that was very distressing so it's important that we.
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Jon Ripp: That we distinguish we know we're talking about, because actually lends to to what our solutions can be, and so, if we confuse the matter, it can be confusing.
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Jon Ripp: it's a very complex issue there's many things driving burnout and and I do think we've seen it more in this generation, if you will.
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Jon Ripp: Because the system level drivers that are at work that have emerged over the last couple of decades that are largely responsible for this are well you know, to some extent are new or not they weren't seeing a few decades ago.
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Jon Ripp: So it's critical to to think about it in that way, and so I would agree, I think, in part, we are seeing more burnout and that has to do with the way in which the healthcare system has evolved in recent years.
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Jon Ripp: You mentioned generational I think also that there are you know, there are generational aspects that that play into this certainly I i've seen i'm sure Dr pepper can speak to this.
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Jon Ripp: You know more intelligently than I can give it to her expertise.
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Jon Ripp: That you know, the current generation, I think, is more open and comfortable and less feels less stigmatized seeking out and talking openly about the distress that they're experiencing.
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Jon Ripp: But again, important to distinguish burnout from other mental health diagnosis, which have different.
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Jon Ripp: Which are, which you know have different drivers and have, and more importantly.
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Jon Ripp: need to be addressed differently with with treatments there's there's some overlap, you know I think some folks who are burnt out may be more inclined to.
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Jon Ripp: To you know or at risk, for you know if they're already at risk for a mental health diagnosis, but they are also very, very distinct issues as well and require different approaches to some extent.
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Anthony Giordano: yeah Thank you and having that definition and really tracking what the impacts on that the visible and and you know medical signs of.
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Anthony Giordano: That condition are really helpful to you know, to define burnout and Dr up, you mentioned that you know, there can be some some stigma around.
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Anthony Giordano: You know, being a physician in the workplace and speaking about burnout and mental health challenges, how do you think we can normalize and protect out https to make sure they they received the care that they need.
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Jon Ripp: yeah I mean again I I would answer that question.
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Jon Ripp: I would answer it delicately right because.
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Jon Ripp: You know you don't want to suggest that the folks who are burnt out need to that it's their responsibility to take it upon themselves to to.
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Jon Ripp: To not be burnt out I think when we're talking about addressing the burnout problem we really need to focus on the system and and thinking about.
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Jon Ripp: solutions that unload the clerical burden the inefficiencies, and also promoting a culture that enhances the well being it supports the workforce.
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Jon Ripp: And that includes leaders who understand and and and speak to those issues, so creating a system that that enables well being it doesn't it doesn't promote burnout so that that's critical.
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Jon Ripp: And yet within that context there's going to be there's going to be individuals that are suffering from burnout and individuals that are suffering from from mental health conditions we notice and and.
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Jon Ripp: The trauma of coven is going to is going to increase the the prevalence we've seen the data showing this and I think there's more to come so, so we need to have it's now more than ever having a clear message that speaks to all of these differences and similarities is is really important.
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Jon Ripp: But when it comes to those individuals that are in distress in the here and now, you know, while we're trying to fix the system.
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Jon Ripp: We need to speak openly, we need to make sure that this is that we are in a culture that that promote self care that promotes reaching out when one is in distress that doesn't encourage folks to hide it, we need to work on regulatory processes that enable.
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Jon Ripp: Work you know enable our healthcare workforce to seek care when they need it, whether it's you know for for mental health or or self care.
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Jon Ripp: And so, and so it's critical that the message is clear.
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Jon Ripp: As a concrete thing one item one one initiative you can do you can you can get folks who are in leadership positions and not a mix mix of folks to talk openly about their own stress encourage.
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Jon Ripp: leaders to be vulnerable and speak about how they are you know undergoing distress and maybe how even they are seeking out self care or or psychiatric care we've been able to successfully do that here at mount Sinai and I encourage places to do it to advance that message.
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Anthony Giordano: that's great I love that and bringing together, not just the leaders, but a mix of people throughout the organization to show that really this is, you know, an issue that that can and does affect anyone, no matter they're all.
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Anthony Giordano: A lot to unpack there and the solutions and we will, as we move into the next section, but one.
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Anthony Giordano: last question on the problem, I just want to ask not dependent, you spoke about the the work, the work day really extending to 24 seven.
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Anthony Giordano: And and really like to dig into a little bit of the adoption of telehealth right i'm more of a hybrid healthcare workforce.
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Anthony Giordano: How has that impacted burnout maybe you could speak a little more about that not just your own experience, but the experience of other Members and colleagues that you work with.
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Vivian Pender: Sure, so um so I just want to go back to the workplace setting that that I hear about from.
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Vivian Pender: residents in training and people who are salaried by hospitals or or clinics and the work environment, especially during covert the stress of covert and the trauma that that Dr as eloquently spoken about the the deaths and disease and and personal.
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Vivian Pender: Exposure to the risk of getting covert for healthcare workers has has just been enormous in the kind of moral injury that healthcare workers are being subjected to, you know that is dispensing chair and rationing care sometimes.
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Vivian Pender: Is is tremendously burdensome so so the key drivers, I think, are for burnout are the workplace environment poor poor working a poor working and find the the inhumane number of hours is so I talked about the 24 seven expectation, but there's also you know for.
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Vivian Pender: physicians in training there's an expectation of an 80 hour work week and.
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Vivian Pender: I hear lots of reasonable complaints that you know, after a certain number of hours at work, they can't think anymore.
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Vivian Pender: And they can you know barely stand up so so those kinds of what i'm turning inhumane expectations of hours per week that we expect from especially physicians is is.
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Vivian Pender: Just unacceptable and and it's inflexible there's an inflexible work environment, and this is especially for young people with children, young children, child here is always an issue.
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Vivian Pender: I know it was for me when when you know, many years ago when when I had small children, I tried to get a daycare Center going at the hospital, where I worked, and it didn't didn't happen, but.
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Vivian Pender: So the inflexibility of work and the lack of support services and and the other thing is the micro aggressions that take place, I don't think we want to overlook that in terms of you know that people of color.
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Vivian Pender: have to.
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Vivian Pender: Our our name assaulted with.
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Vivian Pender: Anti Asian.
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Vivian Pender: sentiment political.
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Vivian Pender: aggressions sexual differences, so will create these these micro aggressions that take place at work are also a very big factor factor.
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Vivian Pender: And, and I I kind of do look at the systemic feet factors, because those can be changed for for a lot of people, no matter.
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Vivian Pender: How much you know exercise and good food and good sleep, we recommend for people to end or to take care of their health and their mental health there's there's just so much that they can they can do to change their workplace so so there's a lot of.
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Vivian Pender: factors that work that needs to be changed, like providing mental health support because there's a soaring demand for services for mental health services for employees.
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Vivian Pender: and flexibility at of work policies that that benefit the employees, as well as their families, so we not only have to focus on on employees, but.
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Vivian Pender: In addition, their families, their children or or other people that they take care of you know, sometimes they're taking taking care of older parents.
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Vivian Pender: And and promoting.
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Vivian Pender: workplace policies that emphasize mental health needs so it's it's not only you know kind of pathology rising.
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Vivian Pender: depression, anxiety, or whatever.
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Vivian Pender: disorder, one might have but But just what is general good good mental health, you know what what does it mean to to have a sense of well being and how can, and how can that be enhanced, and how can employers.
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Vivian Pender: help with that not only by D stigmatizing.
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Vivian Pender: Mental health needs but but actually promoting good mental health, you know, taking breaks support talks talking about asking people, how are you feeling today, you know, having having some some groups.
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Vivian Pender: talks about over lunch about about how they're how they're feeling how they're doing how it has a family, and so you know kind of opening up mental health to to the light of days shining sun sun on sunlight.
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Anthony Giordano: yeah yeah it's it is from the systemic issues down to those individual interactions that that happened on an everyday basis you know so many things are contributing to this panel and.
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Anthony Giordano: To the to the topic and I could see the passion from from both of you is just as we're even talking about just defining the problem it's naturally going to how can we help.
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Anthony Giordano: How can we help the healthcare industry, you know, to really improve here, I want to play a quick clip from a sermo Community Member on one of his solutions to the approach of physician burnout.
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Anthony Giordano: And here's what we'll have a great clip and he'll be speaking and then we'll hear about it okay.
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Anthony Giordano: All right.
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Anthony Giordano: Great yeah very interesting perspective there from a life coach for physician so i'm trying to get any feedback so that's one perspective on this so Dr up what are your thoughts on that.
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Jon Ripp: yeah I think you know my reaction would be first to celebrate and you know recognize validate that that perspective that individual because I think.
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Jon Ripp: We need we need those champions, who have skills and passion for promoting self care and focusing on enabling individuals to be their best selves and find their best pathways so i'm.
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Jon Ripp: You know, in full support of that kind of work, I do see it as kind of one piece in a in a larger complex puzzle a few will that that when when put together.
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Jon Ripp: Is sort of a portfolio of solutions, the complexity of the solutions need to match the complexity of the issue right and we've heard about so many drivers.
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Jon Ripp: we've talked about that are contributing to this problem, and so we need lots lots of solutions and and I would say, first and foremost, again I would return to the system now know, you can have system level changes that enhance the ability to access that type of individual level.
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Jon Ripp: You know, supports that we heard from through in that clip right so.
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Jon Ripp: I would say that that it's the it's the interface of the system level.
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Jon Ripp: And the individual level opportunities that really make the difference, so if you if you create efficiencies in the workplace, if you use technological solutions to.
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Jon Ripp: To make it so that it's easier for one to do their day to day work and you do that, in a culture that promotes psychological safety were individuals feel supported to.
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Jon Ripp: To speak up to say it, you know when they when they need something, then that's actually going to that's going to go, you know part and parcel with with a.
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Jon Ripp: workplace that enables individuals to take to avail themselves of coaches and other individual level level resources.
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Jon Ripp: So so that's kind of how how I think about it, but it really is a complex issue and and we've got to tackle it and I think my last comment is.
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Jon Ripp: Even sometimes we we silo our solutions we say okay let's let's think about an efficiency of work.
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Jon Ripp: solution that can unload you know some of the clerical burden say coming through the inbox the electronic medical record inbox and let's think about some cultural solution that.
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Jon Ripp: enhances leadership, you know behaviors and promotes leadership behaviors that that improve well being.
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Jon Ripp: Well, what I would say is, we need to talk about how these interface right, we need to, we need to talk about how we can promote a culture where leadership leaders demonstrate behaviors that solicit the answers.
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Jon Ripp: Around the efficiencies that are needed and it's the interplay that we need to increasingly pay attention to so that so that everything is working together to get a some that's greater than its parts.
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Anthony Giordano: Definitely, thank you and i'm Dr pender you spoke about you know a lot of different solutions and and so Dr grip on if you can identify.
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Anthony Giordano: With you know one one solution, maybe it's the first one or the most important one, what would be one thing that the audience here can really take away as what you believe is you know one thing that can make an impact.
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Vivian Pender: I I think a supportive and safe working environment is probably the most important thing, where where people can talk to each other.
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Vivian Pender: Especially about how they're feeling.
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Vivian Pender: And and and how they're how they're doing at work and at home.
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Vivian Pender: So actively asking them.
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Anthony Giordano: yeah yeah definitely um and now we'll transition over to the the role of technology in and how it can help with banishing burnout.
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Anthony Giordano: How do you how How important is peer to peer connection in combat and burnout and and how can we use technologies to make clinicians really feel more connected.
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Anthony Giordano: Since Dr penny, you were just speaking about safe environment, you know between doctors and between the overall staff, you know, maybe you can take this one, so how important is that that peer to peer connection in combat burnout.
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Vivian Pender: Well, I I think it's it's some crucial to have.
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Vivian Pender: Social connections, you know people's people survival depends on that there's been a tremendous amount of loneliness.
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Vivian Pender: Lately, and and you know that's harmful to help so so definitely you know the peer to peer connections, unfortunately, most of it is being done over zoom you know, or virtually and.
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Vivian Pender: So that it makes it more difficult to to connect that way, I find that.
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Vivian Pender: People I people i've known for a long time, I can see them on on zoom and and you know we know each other we've had dinner together or.
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Vivian Pender: ever say I know their families it's it's a lot easier, but meeting meeting people, for the first time, I think there has to be some compensation for for this virtual nature, because it's so that we can connect with each other, because I social connection is is really.
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Vivian Pender: critical.
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Vivian Pender: People.
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Anthony Giordano: Definitely in that group same question to you, how do you view the the peer to peer connections in terms of combating burnout.
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Jon Ripp: yeah so I was just pulling up some some work that's been recently done so let me, let me answer that question.
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Jon Ripp: In two ways so so i'm going to push a little bit because pure pure connection building canoe.
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Jon Ripp: Community increasing a sense of belonging and connection is a critical element and one element in a broad picture of.
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Jon Ripp: Potential solution, so I don't want to diminish in any way the importance of it by suggesting that it's one piece again of this complex puzzle, so it is critical.
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Jon Ripp: So we at mount Sinai are actually in the process of coming up with sort of a common practices or best practices list of how to build community.
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Jon Ripp: Using virtual platforms there's plenty of ways to do this and and you don't need to reinvent the wheel, whether you integrate short activities at the beginning of standing meetings or.
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Jon Ripp: have entirely new virtual meetings and sessions there's all kinds of great ways to promote community in the world that we're living in right now, and so I strongly encourage that.
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Jon Ripp: But where I sort of thought, the question was going around technological solutions to address the burnout problem was really around.
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Jon Ripp: How do we use technology to enable people to do their best work to do their work in a way that's more efficient and.
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Jon Ripp: To enhance the meaningful aspects of work and decrease the meaningless aspects of work.
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Jon Ripp: we're probably all familiar, at this point with the term pajama time and the amount of of time that the typical clinician spends just documenting their notes.
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Jon Ripp: And some sobering data that I saw just recently presented at the National Academy of Medicine proceeding show that, even with the recent cms.
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Jon Ripp: e&m changes and documentation which kind of loosened up the the requirements for for documentation, there was basically no change in the amount of time spent.
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Jon Ripp: By clinicians in documenting a little bit concerning and part of that probably has to do with our culture and all the reasons why we document, the way we do.
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Jon Ripp: But the point being is that we really need to leverage technology to diminish the amount of time that we're spending on these meaningless tasks which seemingly are increasing and.
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Jon Ripp: You mentioned Tele health earlier, the explosion of of electronic communication between the patient and the doctor.
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Jon Ripp: is great for the patient, but I would argue that there was essentially no attention paid to what the impact on the healthcare worker is and so now there's even more time spent in in responding to messaging that is not accounted for so.
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Jon Ripp: Some of that can be meaningful of parts of the work if you're communicating electronically.
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Jon Ripp: But a lot of it is is stuff that should never come to the position when, am I going to get my next appointment how am I going to get billing you know window, how do I get to my appointment transportation wise.
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Jon Ripp: So the explosion of the meaningless aspects of.
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Jon Ripp: Work needs to be tackled with with technology and married with some of those.
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Jon Ripp: cultural elements that we're we're leadership in an organization is saying how can we enable our our people to do their best work to come in and and be charged up by what they do not not not have their their their sort of meeting erode.
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Anthony Giordano: yeah that's great I love that meaningful verse meaningless work and Dr Pat, and you have something to add there.
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Vivian Pender: yeah, I just wanted to add I i've heard a lot of complaints that some of the emr have.
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Vivian Pender: Added boxes more boxes, to the system to check and so, so that at making it more cumbersome more time spent on the emr, so there is there is voice technology that could.
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Vivian Pender: easily be used instead of having to you know pour over the screen and check check the box might be a little easier The other thing that's.
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Vivian Pender: That we do it at newyork Presbyterian hospital in the emergency department is they use scribes their students who follow the you know physician around, and so the physician can actually talk to the patient and spend, spend time examining and.
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Vivian Pender: connecting with patient while while scribes you know, in an ancillary way.
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Vivian Pender: Take take the notes and fill out fill out those forms, so that that is very helpful, this is.
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Anthony Giordano: a mix of of human and technology, yes, that definitely we can put in both solutions to help here and.
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Anthony Giordano: As far as new technology um, can you tell us about a new technology implemented that worked well and maybe one that didn't work so well, and what takeaways.
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Anthony Giordano: Can you eat share with the audience here as they think to you know use technology to combat combat burnout Doc dependent we can start with him.
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Vivian Pender: um I I can't think of anything that that is a new technology, I mean other than you know the the usual platforms that are being more and more enhanced.
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Vivian Pender: You know, with more features.
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Vivian Pender: That.
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Vivian Pender: But I, so I think that you know, the industry is in improving our ability to use Tele health.
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Vivian Pender: You know, as as we go along, but I would defer to more.
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Vivian Pender: technologically superior people than me.
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Jon Ripp: yeah I can add to this little bit so from from what i've seen actually there's there's quite a lot of technology available in the here and now that's.
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Jon Ripp: sort of there's a lot of folks that have gotten on this bandwagon and and that really, really designed to increase the efficiency of of the doctor patient or action clinical encounters and so forth.
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Jon Ripp: scribes being being one of them and you're the voice technology actually now is good enough that you know virtual scribes.
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Jon Ripp: i've seen examples where you know you watch a video of Dr and a mock patient interacting and then literally within minutes of the conclusion there's a note that's generated.
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Jon Ripp: And just requires small edits you know I think the problem is, is in the implementation of all this and building that into the business model of healthcare.
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Jon Ripp: We just haven't seen it really it's it's an I shouldn't say we haven't seen it it's out there it's happening an ambien technology that captures you know all that's going on.
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Jon Ripp: You know, between the doctor I mean there's remarkable stuff that that exists in the here and now, but but, again, the implementation is not being realized and and you know there's there's so in terms of things that that have worked there are having worked, you know, I think.
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Jon Ripp: I think the issues around scribes it's it's kind of.
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Jon Ripp: A bit of a toss up there's probably certain specialties that it works really well.
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Jon Ripp: and other specialties that that ultimately, the amount of burden that unloads may not be enough if it's not linked to other measures.
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Jon Ripp: That can really that can really make a difference, we have not signed I have and what we call our inbox management group, so this is.
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Jon Ripp: It folks you know the technological wizards operations folks who understand how team based workflows can can mix with the with the technologies and then the well being people.
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Jon Ripp: meet regularly and we we create a number of pilot programs and provide pilot funding to explore ways in which you can you can merge these technologies, some of those have been quite effective in.
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Jon Ripp: reducing the amount of time that the clinician is spending in the inbox and I heard just the other day, someone saying you know people are not leaving their jobs.
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Jon Ripp: they're not leaving their careers they're leaving their inbox is.
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Jon Ripp: So it's not just the documentation time it's all the added work that flows through through the inbox so if we can use technology and our operations folks to to.
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Jon Ripp: distribute the work amongst TEAM members, we can use technology that have to divert messages you know you can you can use.
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Jon Ripp: Natural language processing technologies to read a message and say Oh, this is, this is about a piece of equipment it's not about something that the method that the physician needs to answer.
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Jon Ripp: And that message gets diverted to a different member of the team that's going to be enabled by the operations folks who know who the TEAM members are and and put them in place so there's a lot happening.
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Jon Ripp: it's just you know it's just that there's a lot of burden out there that that's concurrent and a challenge with implementation.
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Anthony Giordano: Definitely definitely Thank you so much for for sharing both Dr fenders Dr report on this really important topic that's affecting so many of us whether it's personally family, friends colleagues at workplaces.
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Anthony Giordano: And I can just you know, obviously we can talk about this for a very long time, but you know, in the spirit of burnout we also all have other things to work on and a time limit to get to so.
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Anthony Giordano: yeah I will wrap it up here of hope the audience has definitely gotten a lot from from this discussion from, as I mentioned to really the leading voices in this space here.
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Anthony Giordano: You know we've defined what burnout is certainly a very real problem, you know real disease that is affecting so many people and sometimes overlapping with mental health and sometimes not.
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Anthony Giordano: But, but certainly a real issue that has grown with covert and with the increase in operational burden that that healthcare workers have to take on.
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Anthony Giordano: The focus on solutions is both systemic and individual and and both of those are needed so.
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Anthony Giordano: You know it starts at leadership, but but we heard some ideas that really permeated through the entire you know workforce and health care and health system that's important.
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Anthony Giordano: For people.
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Anthony Giordano: of every level to get involved with, and finally the technology solutions, whether that's voice dictation or improve efficiency.
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Anthony Giordano: technologies that that can help reduce that operational burden and also utilizing humans, in addition to technology to be scribes to help out physicians and reduce that burden and reduce burnout.
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Anthony Giordano: and communication, of course, you know, a big part of this between peers between administration and and healthcare workers. I'm in order to you know help people feel a sense of belonging here, so we covered a lot, and thank you again for all of your insights and thank you to the audience for joining us today.
Vivian Pender: Thanks so much for having us thank you.