Join us as Michelle Davey, CEO of Wheel, discusses revolutionizing virtual care. Learn how Wheel's consumer-centric approach and innovative platform are reshaping healthcare delivery, empowering clinicians, and improving patient outcomes.
Michelle Davey, Co-Founder & CEO, Wheel
Megan Antonelli, Chief Executive Officer, HealthIMPACT Live
Welcome 0:01 Music. Welcome to Digital Health talks. Each week we meet with healthcare leaders making an immeasurable difference in equity, access and quality. Hear about what tech is worth investing in and what isn't. As we focus on the innovations that deliver. Join Megan Antonelli, Janae sharp and Shahid Shah for a weekly no BS, deep dive on what's really making an impact in healthcare.
Megan Antonelli 0:30 Hi, welcome to digital health talks. This is Megan Antonelli, your host, and I'm thrilled to be here today with Michelle. Davey. Michelle is the CEO and co founder of wheel. Wheel is a amazing company founded in 2018 and they have Michelle's vision for kind of expanding virtual care and access stems from her own experience, and I'm so excited to learn more about it and share that with everybody today. Hi, Michelle. How are you?
Michelle Davey 0:54 Hi, great to see you again. I'm super excited to chat a little bit more about we all and what we're seeing in the industry and why we're even here at all. Yeah,
Megan Antonelli 1:05 well, thanks so much for being here. And, you know, I think your founder story, really, you know, I loved it. I read about it and hearing, you know, kind of that you founded, you know, early 2018 but like, the launch was right around the pandemic. And as a telehealth company. It must have been, you know, quite a journey. So tell us about how that has has been, and you know what your kind of founder story is, because that's, that's what we love to share.
Michelle Davey 1:32 Absolutely, you're right. It's been quite the journey. My background professionally has been in healthcare and marketplaces and large tech companies, and then eventually, in 2015 found telehealth. And for me, as somebody who grew up in rural Texas without access to care and went undiagnosed with an autoimmune condition for over 15 years, for me, it was a light bulb moment. Telehealth was the answer to all my access problems. I was going to be able to get the health care I needed wherever I was, and including rural Texas or urban areas. And so I jumped in head first to a company to really think about the early days. I say early days telehealth had been around even much longer than that, but in 2015 2016 and what I saw there at that company was we had some incredible tools for telehealth and now digital health, but the Provider Adoption, or the clinician adoption, was very poor. It was really seen as this kind of dark secret that doctors, and mainly doctors at the time would practice, and really wasn't seen as this area for quality, and definitely not quality of care, and was a lower standard of care as somebody who is ingrained in access and believed in the the ability for telehealth to really expand that, and that really challenged me to my core, especially coming from a staffing background. And I thought, You know what? If we are really going to change healthcare, we have to bring the clinicians and the providers along, and we have to think about a whole new way in which they can work. And that was the first impetus. And my co founder is a health regulatory lawyer. So we also had to think about solving that challenge, not just once, but over 50 different states. I often joke that we deliver care in 51 different countries due to all the different regulations. And so how do you do that at scale? We really saw that the problem of scalability over the long term for digital health and virtual care was going to be the scalability of these programs, not only at 50 states, but at multiple condition areas, care, access, etc, so many deep challenges. So we founded, we all in 2018 used to be called enzyme health. And then right before the pandemic, we relaunched january 23, of 2020 as we all with our Series A and we were so excited. We were 15 people. We were ready to rock and roll. And by the beginning of March, the pandemic hit. And you know, one of the things that I really believe is one, you take an opportunity that falls in your lap, like a global pandemic, and you either survive or you get swallowed and kind of sink into the deep end. And so my team dove head first into the challenge. We are an enablement platform. Our proverbial phone was ringing off the hook from all different people. But the really cool thing that I saw in the trend that came then. And ultimately was clinicians and providers were coming online faster than ever. They then needed a way to access those patients. It wasn't just about coming online. I'm available here, but how do I do that security? Securely? How do I even use the technology? How do I know that the telehealth company and the digital health company I'm working for is vetted and my license is not at risk. How do I do the credentialing, licensure, all of those questions? And we solve all that for those clinicians. And then on the other side, it was rapid stand up for these digital health companies, hospital systems, payers, everybody who's trying to just get access out there. And it really was the tipping point of what I would say, the early stages to get clinician buy in. But also, we saw patients walking in, and not just for COVID. They were coming online for so many different things, and since then, we've seen the trend. Almost 77% of care is starting online. And that is an incredible statistics, that the vast majority of care starting online. Now we've always started to solve if that was our vision and it was in 2018 how do we solve the underlying structural issues to make that seamless as possible for all different types of care conditions across many different segments in healthcare.
Megan Antonelli 6:29 Yeah, it must have been amazing to have been, you know, working on creating the platform to really drive it, and then all of a sudden, sort of have that need for it and and demand that, you know, maybe wasn't quite anticipated, that it would come on so quickly. So tell me, I mean, what was most surprising about that? I mean, obviously the physician behavior and the fact that they wanted it, they had to. They were there after all those years of maybe not dragging their feet. But what about on the consumer side? What, you know, what, what was, you know, kind of the surprises or learnings from it.
Michelle Davey 7:01 I think a lot of people, when we've thought about telehealth at the beginning stages, and even now, a lot of people assimilate that to urgent care. And we did see that in COVID, obviously there was an urgent need. People were scared. But we also saw consumers coming online for different types of care, and that was really an interesting consumer behavior change as well. So not only were they coming on for COVID and kind of triage in education around COVID That happened early pandemic, but I think as we all kind of settled into the symptoms and we understood that what we started to see was this change in consumer behavior of, well, I've accessed this once online, and it was a great experience, and it was a good experience. And then what we started to see was them asking for more and coming online for more convenience, more complicated issues, more kind of what we saw that consumer wellness, health, preventative health, are coming on earlier than ever to engage in their health care. That was shocking to me, I think, and shocking to many. And that trend has not stopped. We are seeing more people coming for preventative care earlier online, and some people see that as like, just a wellness or something like that, but I really believe that engagement of the consumer behavior has really changed, and we learned a lot about what consumers expect from their healthcare journey. And we often say, right, we as consumers and other parts of our lives. We expect a lot. We expect same day delivery. We expect. I can order my groceries through my mobile app. I can order, you know, almost anything, and get it instantly. Now, how do we convert that to healthcare? And what we also saw, what I think is a little bit different than E commerce world, is that trust needs to be developed and held through the consumer experience. And so not only are we convenience and access, we also have to build trust, and so and keep that trust engagement is not just important up front, but throughout the care journey. And building that trust and healthcare exchanges value on trust. And I think that's a really important thing that we have to continue to think about as we look into the future as well. Consumers, of course, will want to come online for this great access to care and all of those things that we knew it would solve. But really, how embedded trust is into the care journeys is going to be important, yeah,
Megan Antonelli 9:39 and it is so important. And I think certainly during that time, when there was so much misinformation and so much, you know, sort of so many questions that trust is, you know, sort of was the bedrock of of why people came online to get you know, and how they could get health care. And that's really interesting, how you know, you guys, I mean, it was. Always had that consumer centric approach. But obviously in that time, it really kind of shaped that tell us a little bit about, you know, your sort of how it works. What are the customers? What it looks like, where, where wheel sits in the healthcare continuum. I know you've, you know, I've seen you've worked with Sanofi and Otsuka and Amazon. So a lot of different types of customers tell us how, how those those relationships work?
Michelle Davey 10:25 Yeah, absolutely so. Wheel is a technology platform that allows us to stand up rapid scale virtual care for not just kind of episodic care, but also condition management programs across weight, dermatology, women's health, menopause, etc. And so when you think about the types of customers that we service, we service a large swath of healthcare and different types of large enterprises. So everything from large digital health players that we talked about, that you mentioned, to life science and pharmaceutical companies, to payers and retailers, and really, what's been really interesting from our angle, is not only getting them all In the room, but understanding the different learnings and applications for each segment of the market and being able to use those learnings across and so what we've learned from digital health companies in regards to consumer activation and we can apply to pharma, what we learn about the regulatory environment and quality of care and pharma and life sciences, we can apply to payer and digital health and then pay our cost of care and care management and risk aversion. We can apply across the seat. So that's been a really incredible vantage point that we've had and continue to grow. And it allows us to deliver services, like I said, from consumer services and drive consumers down into condition management programs that they're eligible for, and really seamlessly connect that care, as well as utilizing the data to prevent care episodes and risk scores and things like that. So it's been an incredible vantage point. I think the company has evolved quite a bit since those times in 2020 when we were standing up. Now we have the technology platform, the multi specialty networks that that work on behalf of these types of companies, and the technology that ultimately makes that seamless for the patient, but also, importantly for the clinician as well. And so we're really working hard, not just to solve these problems for one part of healthcare, but all of healthcare,
Megan Antonelli 12:51 right? Well, let's talk a little bit more about that too. I mean, I one of my things when I look at all these, the digital platforms that are out there, and the various ways that people are getting care now. And I guess when we started this conversation about the digital transformation, there was so much about continuity of care and, you know, having a, you know, healthcare home. And now it seems like people you know much you know, sort of are okay to have multiple points of entry, but there is still that need for integration, certainly on folks that have chronic, you know, illnesses, and, you know, immuno autoimmune diseases and things that are have tons of often have comorbidities. Tell us a little bit about, you know, what you see as the the way to achieve integration, and where we'll play plays in that role.
Michelle Davey 13:40 Yeah, yeah. I mean integration, interoperability is something we've been talking a long time in healthcare and looking at phases in which we solve it. I think there's really two different camps. One side of it is really putting the power into the patients, giving them the access to their health records, and allowing them to then push that to wherever they are presented care next, whether that be at home, whether that be in clinic, whether that be in hospital, etc. And then there's the other side, where there is the data integrations to push and pull data across different care entities on behalf of the patient, both are equally important. I would say both are equally as hard. So there's no simple fix. I think for a lot of the interoperability challenges in healthcare, there's a lot of regulation happening to try and solve for this, but it's hard. It's very complex, and what I think we have done, and always had the mindset from the early days, is because we are this enablement and technology platform across many different types of care services and virtual services is we can actually follow a patient on their virtual journey and give them access. Says to that care record to take with them. I think that's an important step, as I mentioned. It doesn't solve all of the other operability issues, but we've also worked very hard on our architecture and our partnerships and our open ecosystem in order to be able to push health records to digital entities or entities that can receive those records or want to receive those records. And so we are trying to take approach at both sides, I think, as my hope at least, and the next 10 years, and with AI, I think, is really going to be able to help solve these things. And for us, it's really about, how do we make it seamless, not only for the patient, as I mentioned, but also our clinicians, because a lot of the burden falls on clinicians, typically, even in a clinic environment, to fax that record over or move that to the patient, etc. So that's one way. And then second, I would say, is kind of continuing to deepen our care operates, as I mentioned, a lot of people know we all from 2020 and 2021, as powering a lot of these consumer health companies with really episodic care. And now we're seeing use cases and moving kind of more chronic conditions and delivering care for condition management programs across weight, women's health, dermatology and other areas as well. And for us, I think the big change there has been, we've seen these incredible companies be able to access and engage patients at the very beginning, and we've shown through our platform that 60% of the users that engage through the plot, through our partners, will actually end up in the right care journey, which is an incredible thing that we've worked really hard on. Now, if you're coming in for hair loss and you're in your mid 50s, and you're a woman, you know, how do we say actually, that may not just be hair loss and turn you away for a hair loss after it's solved, but actually your perimenopausal or right at the age which you should be looking at other areas of your care, journey and and helping engage in that, Whether that's sending a test, whether that's referral or referring you into a care journey that's already present in your eligibility, and so just deepening our offering and continuing to build out more of those offerings down the road. So
Megan Antonelli 17:37 tell me a little bit about the care programs, like how, you know, I think I read somewhere it's like, you have over 100 care programs. Where, how do those get developed? Where are they coming you know, are you developing them with partners? Is it the provider network? How does, where do they come from? And how do they they play a role?
Michelle Davey 17:55 Yes, there is a couple different ways in which care programs get developed. Some we have, kind of these off the shelf care programs that we deliver every single day. Millions of patients go through them. They are tested. They have quality metrics behind them. We're able to share those and kind of be able to deploy those very rapidly on behalf of these organizations. One of the things about we all is even though maybe one organization deploys a weight management program and so does the next one, and even though it's the same care program, our configurability on our platform, over 200 different things are able to be configured to your brand and your style and things like that, and it allows you to have a differentiated offering while still providing the quality of care that we're known for, and then ultimately normalizing that for the clinician, so that they're not remembering 15 to 30 different weight management programs. They're able to do what they do best, which is provide that care and then so as we look forward, really, those condition management programs that I talked about are really important for us, and some of the areas that we don't do or maybe do in partnership, don't do yet, but do in partnership and a Build often are done with our partners, their clinical teams, and then using kind of best in class clinicians as well, who come in, who are specialists, OB GYN in menopause, building those care programs, deploying those with our partners. And then the important piece here is continuing to monitor those programs, test and iterate them, to ensure that quality is not only there, but also that they're engaging and people are using them. I think it's hard to to ultimately measure quality when nobody's using these programs, and that's what we've seen with historical programs, is the engagement. It really lacks. And so as we talk about consumer care and engagement, and that consumer centric mindset we have, we think about engagement, needs, quality, and that's ultimately where we believe the magic is made
Megan Antonelli 20:16 Awesome, well, and then tell me a little bit because, you know, in terms of that, you know, when we think about telemedicine, and we, you know, certainly the promise of telemedicine from, you know, the big the outset was, you know, access, right? You mentioned that you're from rural Texas, like rural, you know, provider deserts and addressing that. And I know your background was also in, in staffing. So tell me a little bit about, you know, what that looks like for real, what makes it unique? And kind of, you know what, you know what? Maybe, if it's a little bit of the challenges with with building out that network,
Michelle Davey 20:47 absolutely, there is, I think, to nobody's surprise, incredible provider deserts. Not only do we have PCP deserts, where it's oftentimes 26 days to get your appointment for a PCP at best, but we have specialist deserts. We have deserts, not only across those specialists, but then we have rural deserts. We even have urban deserts. So all to be said, we have significant deserts across all of healthcare and to solve those things, I think one of the one thing that I reflect on and think about the most is the biggest challenge that we have is ultimately a shortage of clinical decisions, a shortage of the ability for us to make the right clinical decision making for a patient in their time of need, within their care journey, Whether it be early and they're activating, kind of in a wellness and preventative care or that means that they're later in their care journey and need immediate help, or kind of more advanced help. And so clinical decision making is our scarcity. One of the things that's unique about wheel and we've always thought about is when clinicians use the platform to practice on wheel, and they're oftentimes working, on average, for five to six different organizations and different care models. And like I said, we really had to then use technology to solve the challenges of different care models, different different patient inputs, different questionnaire, those types of things. And we've really put a lot of emphasis on the technology taking the burden from the clinician, so that the clinician can just practice, allowing us to scale one clinician to many different areas, not only being able to see more patients, but more types of care, journeys and different condition management, etc, that they may not be exposed to in their day to day. And that allows them not only to practice and rural Texas and solve patient issues there, but also urban areas and then up leveling PCPs to the top of their license as well. So taking that specialist burden, where appropriate, off of, you know, some of the deserts that we see there and then, as I mentioned, building out specialty networks as well is a big focus as we start to solve some of those healthcare deserts. So I always say, I mean, you turn over run rock and healthcare and find two different problems. The same is true when you look at staffing. And how do you scale virtual care across 50 states? As I mentioned, the regulatory environment is one of the most challenging areas, but also just enabling clinicians to not have the burden to be the ones who are having to solve that on behalf of patients. So that's where we've invested millions and millions of dollars to solve for that, into a technology platform,
Megan Antonelli 23:52 and in terms of where we're at with the regulatory sort of developments and stuff, tell us a little bit about, you know, what you expect in the next I guess right now, it might be particularly hard to predict, but what are you looking at, and what are you either concerned about or optimistic about from a from the regulatory standpoint? And then I have a question. I have a couple more questions about about that too.
Michelle Davey 24:17 Well, the regulatory environment is always a interesting one, especially at this time. One of the things that has been a net benefit out of the pandemic is telehealth and virtual care has bipartisan support, and then in the government, that's great. I think we tend to think in healthcare, especially if you work across all 50 states at the federal level, what are you seeing? We're seeing some really incredible stuff, and the Women's Health Initiative that they're putting out, so I think there's a lot of opportunity there, but we're also seeing challenges. We're seeing a lot of the things that we're. Opened up in COVID being rolled back very quickly, affecting many populations, including opioid addiction, which I think is probably one of the most worrisome areas, and delaying access to those populations. So a lot happening there, but I think as my favorite quote from Quinn Chan, who is the master of all regulatory environments in healthcare, she says, always don't sleep on the states, because we think about the federal programs, those are really challenging, but the state by state by state regulations at different provider levels is really where you start to see some significant changes coming. I am hopeful that we see some of that change start to unify across the states and kind of embed outside of these COVID waivers. So we know we're practicing. We know how to color within the lines, so to speak. And then lastly, what I do, think I'm very optimistic about, is AI regulation and healthcare. We are one of the industries, surprisingly, who has already had regulation in place, a reimbursement in place, for AI and the application of AI, there's still a long way to go. There's going to be a lot more to come, but we are proactive, versus a lot of industries, which I think is actually unique to healthcare, for once, and then second, will allow us to start to build for the future and utilize advanced technologies that are so going to solve some of our biggest challenges out there.
Megan Antonelli 26:45 Well, you anticipated my next part of this three part question, which is in terms of the technology, because you mentioned AI a little bit in terms of how you're using it, and tell us a little bit about, you know, I'm just curious in terms of where you see that that technology coming to coming into play in what you're going to do. I mean, you start also, because we talked a little bit about trust, right, and how important that is, so to bring it back to the beginning of the trust, and then where AI is going to be implemented in these care pathways. Tell us about, you know either where it is now and where you see it's coming, in terms of those, those opportunities,
Michelle Davey 27:24 absolutely, we announced earlier this year our horizon platform, which is our technology platform that utilizes AI right now to solve some of The workflow issues remove the burden from clinicians utilizing AI technologies different types in order to essentially remove that burden in different types of the care journey. As well, we're seeing application for engagement for patients throughout and trust is a big thing that we think about in terms it's one of our leading principles for AI, as we build trust, not only for the patients that are important, but the clinicians as well as our clients that we serve and the data that that is part of our platform in order to power those services. So as I think about AI and the application directly to we all. Care delivery is a very complex web of workflows, and in in healthcare without AI, one of the biggest things that is a challenge is the complexity of those workflows as they change for each person, my care journey, even though we may go through the same things, is very different than yours, and that personalization is important, and the ability for AI and technology to take on that burden, versus a clinician trying to use their brand and many, many years of schooling and remember, all of that has become a big burden on this system, and that's where I say clinical decision making, it's just not fair that one person has to remember all that, even though they are quite advanced in their studies. So we're using AI across many different workflows and care delivery journeys to use predictive technologies to help personalize your care throughout the care journey, engage you throughout your care journey, and lastly, use data to help us inform the right care journeys that are happening online. And so that's what we're doing today. We're very much in the phase of experimentation to implementation, and I think there's a lot of things that we will just add to the platform over time, but we really have to think about that trust and that data integration and continuing to manage that throughout time, and that is driven through consumers, clinicians and our clients.
Megan Antonelli 30:01 It's, yeah, now it's amazing, and it is interesting to see how, you know, I mean, obviously in healthcare, it's always been data centric, and the use and applications of data, so our ability to sort of adopt and and our acceptance of AI and the applications of it in healthcare has been comparatively rapid to other technologies that weren't, you know, weren't all that, you know, scary, if you will, but it is amazing to think about. And I think around like, like when social determinants of health became, you know, the the sort of area that we could, that we needed to look at. And of course, you know, it should have been for, for much longer. And you know, all that means is, you know, sort of the demographics of of where people come from, impacts their health. Like, Duh, yeah. As you then talked to providers about it, they said, Well, how am I going to take this information? How am I going to collect this information? How am I going to use it? And when I think about one of the bigger promises of AI, like you said, it's like those things that providers can't remember and can't do all you know, for every single patient that they see, it just automatically, you know, helps with that, you know, and so little things like that, whether it's comorbidities or, you know, social determinants of health and knowledge that you know is difficult to you know, collect each each and every time that They can do that. So it is, you know, lots of promise and lots of potential and and, as you said, the regulatory space in that, in that, for now, seems, seems somewhat promising. So again, a challenges and opportunities question, but this one at a bigger level, kind of the you know, where I think one of the really interesting things that you guys, you know, positions that you're in is that you are servicing these different customers within healthcare. So tell us a little bit about where you see some opportunities there, you know. I mean, I think one of the biggest frustrations is how siloed healthcare is and how, you know, pharma gets to do one thing, and health plans have, you know, they get to create, you know, cures, payers, pay, providers, give the care. And with those divisions, do you have, you know, lots of inefficiencies that come up, and even middlemen that allow for those to communicate. So tell us a little bit about, you know, sort of where you see the opportunities there, you know, whether for one or for for all.
Michelle Davey 32:18 I am going to start with challenges, then go to opportunities. I think it is challenging to serve as different markets. And as I mentioned, those challenges can be unique to each market. One of the challenges in these markets is they're all at different stages. Digital Health is in this very early stage, but I would say rapidly advanced in innovation, technology, innovation, care model innovation, even business model innovation, compared it to certain areas of healthcare, then pharmaceutical is in the in life sciences is in the golden age of pharmaceuticals and cures and treatments, which is incredible, but a very highly regulated for all, for right reasons, regulated area, which is looking at not only all those deserts that we talked about, provider deserts, more cures and treatment areas coming online than ever, and realizing that their commercialization efforts, with 77% of people coming online to start their care journey, their traditional commercialization efforts are no longer going to work. How do they think about accessing not only patients directly, which we're seeing, but educating the market about disease areas, treatment areas, abilities to cure or just treat and inform in certain areas and so different challenges. They are very early, I would say, in their commercialization and highly regulated. And then you have pairs who adoption wise, they've adopted digital technologies and virtual care many years ago. They're challenged with engagement. I mean, we hear it everywhere, right? The point fatigues or point solution fatigue. And really the fatigue is the fact that they bought and rolled and packaged all of these different point care solutions. And the engagement is really, really low. Employers aren't seeing that, and they're ripping things out that they're no longer using. They're expecting different things. So it's a it's a challenge on each one. The opportunity is how much they can learn from each other, and that is one of the things that we really love, to facilitate the conversation between those organizations about what is digital health seeing? You know, one of the nuts I would say, a lot of these digital health companies have cracked is engagement, some of them. And so how do they do that? You know, where they've really been challenged in a business model. And then Pharma has large budgets. And. Commercialized. But how do we help them understand the regulatory environment and providing safe patient care and education and taking that and applying it to digital health and payer and then in the payer side, as I mentioned, you know, one of the things that I think they struggle with is engagement, but what they're really good at is understanding they have a lot of data on patients, and they have a lot of data. How do we use that data to inform care delivery decisions over time? And so I think there's a lot of opportunity where they can learn from each other. To your point, it's highly siloed. We'd like to bring them together, facilitate those conversations, be a part of the ecosystem. We have large retailers as well, who we talk to with pharma directly. A lot of our partners, we actually introduce cross functionally, and they have a lot to learn from each other. They have big relationships with each other as well. And everybody's thinking about, you know, we're now more digitally native than ever. We have AI in front of us, and we're seeing populations, not just young, but old, engaging and virtual technologies. As we look forward over the next 10 years, what's that going to look like? What's that shape and how do you deploy it now to be ready for those opportunities. So they're all thinking the same thing. It's just now we've got to kind of connect all those dots, which is a challenge, but a huge opportunity for us, and not only as we all but patients and consumers.
Megan Antonelli 36:34 Yeah, no, it is, and it's, you know, it's exciting times, and it's, it is interesting. And in some ways, it's like, you know, even with digital health being sort of new or young in that, you know, in its maturity, you know, there's so much potential and so so many opportunities for that, you know, in that the it's been not that communication and that collaboration and the engagement side, I think is really interesting. And I think you guys bring a ton to the table around that. I mean in terms of what you're seeing because of the, you know, specialized areas that you're approaching. So exciting stuff. Tell our audience how they can learn more about wheel and get in touch with you.
Michelle Davey 37:18 You can go to wheel.com and get in touch with our team there, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I always love to talk about not only the challenges in healthcare, but the opportunities. And as we see the future, what we're building towards and how we all our technology, platform and network can power some of the biggest programs, but also the most engaging ones that are driving quality outcomes. So happy to talk anytime, and please see us. We'll be at health and all of the big events we're around. So please come engage with us. We'd love to have the discussion.
Megan Antonelli 37:57 Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Michelle, it's really been a pleasure talking to you and learning more about both your background, which I feel like we didn't, we didn't do it justice in the in the intro. So I encourage everybody to check out Michelle's background and her bio. But she really came to this and founded wheel from a super impressive place. And, you know, I think we all kind of go through our healthcare journeys, and not all of us end up, you know, creating incredible companies at the right time, but, but Michelle certainly did. So thanks so much for being here and to our audience. Thanks for joining us. Be sure to subscribe. And this is Megan Antonelli and signing off,
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