HealthIMPACT Live Presents: Sustainable Transformational Innovation that Will Secure the Future of Your Organization
Original Publish Date: Apr 7, 2022
An unprecedented number of innovative technologies were deployed in response to the sudden need and rapid expansion of virtual health during the pandemic. Two years in and we have a strained healthcare system and a tired workforce. Amidst this great transformation, the need for innovation remains. Here, we’ll explore cultural and paradigm shifts, and tried and true methods for creative and aggressive innovation that will ensure your organization not only recovers but thrive as we emerge anew. Join Angela Yochem for a discussion of:
Angela Yochem, EVP, Chief Transformation & Digital Officer, Novant Health
Michael Ames, Sr. Director, Healthcare & Life Sciences, SADA
Michael Ames : Hello everyone welcome, and thank you for joining us at this health impact keynote session today really, really excited about our speaker and looking forward to coming together to learn some new things, and maybe some new ways to think about health it leadership and health it culture. I, Michael Ames, i'm senior director for healthcare and life sciences SADA SADA is a Google cloud consultancy and reseller my part of the business focuses on how we bring those technologies.
To you, to help solve your healthcare data infrastructure and analytics problems i'm really excited today to be joined by and to be featuring. Angela Yockem quick background, on her, she has a VP and chief digital officer for Nova health a super regional health care system. With one of the largest medical groups in the US, she and her teams deliver world class consumer capabilities differentiating technologies advanced clinical solutions. All of which allow their high growth system to provide remarkable patient care and you would think from that background that we're talking about somebody who must have come with a life time career in the healthcare industry to be able to affect that kind of change from the inside.
But, but the fact is that, like some of us, unlike many of us Angela came to the healthcare.Industry a little bit more recently in her career after a very successful career in technology leadership in other industries. Some of those were a VP and CIO a rent a Center global CIO at ddp International, which is a freight logistics company global cto at astros anika and a divisional CIO at Dell. And part of why i'm excited about this talk today is that is precisely this diverse background and experience that I think makes Angeles so interesting and gives her the background to bring a different perspective on healthcare it it team, culture and leadership than maybe some of us who have spent longer in the industry are accustomed to so we've got some questions and things that that we're going to walk through here in a minute, but I wanted to give Angela just a moment to say hi a little bit of intro on herself any opening remarks you want Angela before we start diving into the meaty stuff.
Angela Yochem: Oh Thank you so much, Michael you're very kind in your remarks and it's just such a pleasure to be here with you today and to speak to this audience, who I know to be an audience of innovators so it's going to be a great conversation. You know, one of the things that I have a chance to do as part of my role is in some ways, similar to the role that help in the past in that. I typically have had an opportunity to work for these amazing companies at a time when the company itself is is either undergoing some sort of transformation or when it finds itself when the industry it's in finds itself being transformed in some way, so I feel some days like i've been doing the same job for a long time, even though, even though i've only been with health care for four years.
Michael Ames : The only constant is change and that's constant through all time and and everywhere right, in fact, I live I laugh a little bit at how often these days in our industry people talk about. Healthcare is changing so rapidly I don't know a time when that has not been true right. And I don't know many industries where that has not been true, so I think that's great you've got your already accustomed. To the idea of change and transportation or sorry change and transformation and bringing that bringing that into healthcare. So one of the things that I did and preparing for this Angela was I went back and did a whole bunch of media stocking on. Other interviews and news articles and report some things that you had written to get a sort of sense for where you were. At and you're thinking and some of your perspectives and there were a few topics that came up again and again that I thought was fascinating because I felt like they were in different ways. A little bit provocative they challenged sort of our norms of thinking, or at least some of the norms held by large parts of our industry right. And, and if you're Okay, with it, what I felt like I wanted to do here was take through take take our audience through some of those provocative ideas all set them up.
And then you talk about them talk about why these ideas that might be different from how we're doing business today should represent the right way to do business in the future and we'll go from kind of smaller and technical and more tactical out to bigger and more more earth changing does that sound right.
Angela Yochem: That sounds perfect Okay, there was a there was a wrestler and I can't remember who all the wrestlers are, but it was a professional wrestler who used to say something like don't sing it bring it so let's let's have this provocative questions and let's have a great conversation.
Michael Ames : will get it right in we'll get right into it, the first thing that stood out to me, having worked with organizations whose whose view on this was almost precisely the opposite.
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Michael Ames : Is, you said that healthcare it teams should actually consider looking at not focusing all of their efforts around the ehr.
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Michael Ames : And this is interesting, because of course the ehr vendors are certainly working hard to drive more and more data and processes under that.
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Michael Ames : One umbrella, and to say build your world around us and we will solve all of your problems, why shouldn't healthcare systems and healthcare it departments embrace that that monolithic view of their world.
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Angela Yochem: Well, I think.
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Angela Yochem: I believe that the ehr vendors do an amazing job at the core functionality that they bring you know they're amazing companies, they have extraordinarily smart people working for them, and they have very ambitious product roadmaps as well, they should.
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Angela Yochem: I think that for systems that perhaps don't have a lot of investment systems, who you know, maybe just want the basic functionality relying entirely on the ehr for the you know pretty much everything that is is in their state, I think, is a wonderful ideas it's a one stop shop that said.
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Angela Yochem: If your system is one that hopes to build to bring a degree of access, a degree of quality to the patients and the communities that you serve, you have to believe that you're going to have to to go outside a single vendor to bring those capabilities forward So what does that mean.
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Angela Yochem: That means that you can't rely on number one the vendor roadmap for delivering all of those capabilities that you need okay now let's say you've bought that and you say Okay, I need to build a capability or co create one or you know, perhaps adopt adopted capability off the shelf.
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Angela Yochem: that's outside of the ehr then, how do I operate on the data that's contained inside of my ehr well you know that can also be somewhat problematic, depending upon the nature of the data you're hoping to operate upon.
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Angela Yochem: So you need to figure out how you're going to extract the data from the ehr and then what are you going to you know what does that data state going to look like.
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Angela Yochem: And you know, here we are in the first question, and what we've landed on is one of the most important parts of doing something transformational for your company.
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Angela Yochem: And that is getting your arms around your data state that's making sure that your data is accessible, making sure that you can take advantage of.
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Angela Yochem: The proliferation of data that exists in our world, not just the clinical data that we have tracked so carefully and not just the streaming health and wellness data that we now have access to.
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Angela Yochem: But the data from all of those remote sensors and the data from.
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Angela Yochem: The data from commercially available sources and behavioral data that we that we now have access to.
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Angela Yochem: These are all interesting data sets that need to be accessible to you and to any new component tree that you may deliver and and now hosting your estate to bring insights forward such as.
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Angela Yochem: predicting major health events before they happen, I mean little things you know it's the it's the little things like that.
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Angela Yochem: That we all want to do, for obvious reasons which we simply can't do if we don't have our arms around our data state, so why should we not relay on the ehr.
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Angela Yochem: Because you know that's one that's one system, it can only do so much let's make sure we're taking advantage of the advances in technology, the advances in computing power and the unprecedented amount of data that that to which we now have access.
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Michael Ames : i'm curious with with a know about health specifically and some of the initiatives that you've had oversight and visibility into.
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Michael Ames : What would you say i'm just going to make an assumption that that your ehr system where systems are probably we probably rank them number one in terms of the importance of carrying out.
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Michael Ames : patient care operations and potentially some of your innovation activities and other things, but is there a a product or a platform.
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Michael Ames : Or maybe it's even better thought of as an activity that you would rank as number two that you would say look at teams once you've sort of got your hands around the ehr here is where you should go next in terms of being able to deliver value to your organization yeah.
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Angela Yochem: Well, at the risk of sounding redundant, you know let's get yourself, you know, a modern data store, you know, in our case, we have a data lake that we store and an azure base cloud.
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Angela Yochem: We have a robust API layer that sits in front of it and that API layer is the means by which we operate on that data at will and it's a lovely wonderful thing.
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Michael Ames : yeah and, within that to drill down into even a little bit further.
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Michael Ames : There are things that you can do there operationally there are things that you can do there in terms of predictive analytics and.
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Michael Ames : In terms of the capabilities that are being delivered by your cloud based data data lake if you had to narrow it down to that this is the one thing that is delivering value for us and has really made this Investment worth it, what would be on the top of that list.
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Angela Yochem: it's impossible to prioritize What would you prioritize.
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Angela Yochem: You know, would you prioritize being able to detect with a you know 90 plus percent accuracy, the likelihood of somebody who is going to attempt suicide upon discharge.
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Angela Yochem: Over you know, being able to predict with extremely high degree of accuracy, the likelihood of.
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Angela Yochem: A major heart health event happening for one of our patients, I mean, how would I prioritize one over the other, how would I prioritize you know.
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Angela Yochem: The ability to see in advance, where our biggest Tsukuba surgeries are going to be, because we have our data science team building amazing models.
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Angela Yochem: Based on all of the data that we that we have access to me that that allows our operational teams to prepare for those surgeries.
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Angela Yochem: So it's not to be overwhelmed and fail to deliver care to the communities, we serve it's hard to prioritize that there's just so many things that.
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Angela Yochem: In my opinion, are central to just day to day operations and delivery of care and management of health and wellness and promotion of health equity that we all care so much about.
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All of it now.
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Michael Ames : i'll make an observation, though, implicit in your answer.
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Michael Ames : You had a difficult time prioritizing between this predictive model that will help us deliver better care and this predictive model that will help us deliver better care and this one that will help us deliver better care.
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Michael Ames : But you didn't give a lot of other examples of things that could be done in a data lake or a data warehouse and I think in, there is the answer.
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Michael Ames : Would you say it is correct the what you're seeing the value is is not just let's get the data up there, so that we can run more operational reports.
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Michael Ames : But the value in the data is giving you the ability to look ahead to actually impact and alter patient care to help the organization be prepared for what's coming next that's.
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Angela Yochem: that's exactly right yeah that's exactly right.
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Michael Ames : Great and I think it's actually that that perspective is actually helpful and leading to our next kind of provocative question if, if you will, so.
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Michael Ames : i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm going to call ourselves out here, but the SATA sponsor and health impact for the title of this session.
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Michael Ames : which I can't remember what it was, but it was something about sustainable transformational innovation that used all three of those.
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Michael Ames : And, as I looked at that, this morning I thought could we have put more possibly meaningless buzzwords into one session title i'm not i'm not sure that we could have.
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Michael Ames : And it relates to this next question about what how we named things and and sort of how that how that matters, by the way, I do think that sustainable transformational and innovation.
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Michael Ames : were chosen very carefully, and this is what we're talking about here, but sometimes people hear things and they think those are words and they don't mean anything at Novartis I understand right.
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Michael Ames : You don't have an IT department, you have make sure I get this right, digital products and services is that right.
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Angela Yochem: That is right, but the way the question is phrase implies that they are equal and and that's not how that that happened.
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Michael Ames : Okay, so I want you to talk about that, because I think externally people might look at Novartis and say fun you gave your it department, a fancy new name.
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Michael Ames : Just before the meeting you're talking about hey everybody got jackets right we've all done do they have been through these things where we we rebrand ourselves.
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Michael Ames : And they create maybe temporary bumps in energy, but at the end of the day.
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Michael Ames : aren't you still just an IT department yeah.
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Angela Yochem: yeah that's it, thank you for asking that so so.
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Angela Yochem: When I joined a four years ago.
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Angela Yochem: We had a couple of you know, first of all, we had an amazing it team, a very traditional looking it team they had done very, very well, we had a world class ehr implementation by the way, which I am still benefiting from the amazing work that was done before I got here.
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Angela Yochem: The, but we did have a couple of issues first.
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Angela Yochem: There was a little bit of a branding issue in the sense that.
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Angela Yochem: in the sense that there you know people used the word it use the phrase it in a way that sometimes was somewhat dismissive.
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Angela Yochem: As opposed to being you know part of the decision making part of the organization it's more of a it's in the it part of the organization, so I I didn't care for that, but that's really not a big problem it's just an observation that I had.
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Angela Yochem: So, in coming on, and this is what really led to the digital products and services shift.
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Angela Yochem: The first thing that that I did, and the first thing that I think anyone should do, especially as you're thinking about remaking your capability set.
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Angela Yochem: is exactly that identify the capabilities that need to be in place in some form, you know abandon any artificial constraint that may be associated with your existing organizational structure or who's in what seat and forget all that.
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Angela Yochem: In an abstract sense identify what are the capabilities that you need to have in place in support of the outcomes that your company is trying to achieve and that's true of any industry right.
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Angela Yochem: So understand what that capability set is now once we were able to identify that and be a relatively big buckets where we started, we didn't start with the detailed capability model and map it's extraordinarily long process.
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Angela Yochem: But just at a very high level what are those basic capabilities we need to have in place to achieve a transformation of healthcare.
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Angela Yochem: There were capabilities that correspond to a traditional it shop, there were some and they in fact existed in the traditional it shop, we were able to populate an organization with some of the traditional it it shop folks and, in some cases, some of the existing org structures.
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Angela Yochem: Then we identified some capabilities that were not represented in the IT shop, but they were represented in other parts of the system.
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Angela Yochem: So we're able to pull those groups in and put them in to the this overall organization to support those capabilities that are equally important and so critical to some of the things we're trying to do.
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Angela Yochem: And, of course, lastly, as you may have anticipated their capabilities, they just weren't represented across the system at all, and we had to build those out.
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Angela Yochem: By bringing in talent from a variety of places I didn't optimize for people with healthcare experience, because I figured we have 37,000 TEAM members with healthcare experience we don't you know.
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Angela Yochem: Probably probably have that covered they don't need one more so, sometimes people came from other healthcare systems and sometimes people came from retail banking big energy.
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Angela Yochem: You know all over the place, so these are academia, in some cases we've been very fortunate and being able to attract some amazing talent, but now together.
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Angela Yochem: We are digital products and services, and some of those capabilities are rather unusual to have associated with a traditional it shop so.
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Michael Ames : yeah i'd.
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Michael Ames : love to hear more about that and to make that example concrete I think most of us understand what goes in the traditional it shop.
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Michael Ames : bucket but you talked about some things that were already within the system that were pulled in under this umbrella and then some things that were new Can you give us a couple of examples of each one.
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Angela Yochem: Absolutely, so we had so of course be like that you know what's in traditional it shop when we think about things that existed in the system, but live elsewhere.
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Angela Yochem: One of the things that we had represented across many parts of the system was clinical informatics so we had physicians and nurses who lived in a variety of different organizational structures seminar medical group some in the chief medical officers organization and.
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Angela Yochem: And then one Z two z's that functioned in that role, even though they didn't have a title associated with informatics.
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Angela Yochem: It was just a distributed group of people practicing Similarly, in fact, most of them were technically also practicing physicians.
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Michael Ames : And licensed nurses, but.
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Angela Yochem: They were practicing the craft of informatics separately and sometimes in conflict with one another, sometimes overlapping.
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Angela Yochem: All brilliant brilliant brilliant people, so we were able to consolidate that team and bring it in to digital products and services.
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Angela Yochem: To allow them to have a platform that's bigger than their individual group in the system so that every decision we make is considered with the broadest possible context that they offer one another.
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Angela Yochem: And it's just been a tremendous thing to see that team another team that got moved in is a digital health line of business, so we moved digital health line of business over from the medical group into my team.
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Angela Yochem: So of course we have the technical teams that build the digital health tool sets but that's separate from the team actually running the digital health operations and the remote command centers and all of the.
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Angela Yochem: All of the on demand physicians are part of the part of this team, and we have a we have a device company that lives as part of this team it's it's actually.
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Angela Yochem: it's actually been quite quite fun having that and particularly in the last three years, managing that growth has been extraordinarily fun and helpful to the organization.
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Michael Ames : yeah couple of comments on on these one is first of all, I appreciate, as you talk about the clinical implementations.
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Michael Ames : My graduate training is biomedical informatics and I appreciate the term the craft of informatics right and understanding that that's a discipline that is different from it it's different from.
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Michael Ames : Care delivery and putting those people together so that they can work in harmony on those goals, I think I think makes a ton of sense tell us more about the medical device company embedded because I think that that's probably unique to a lot of organizations.
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Angela Yochem: Well, so um so remember that, as we think about ways in which we have to serve, we, the opportunities that we have to serve our communities and our patients.
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Angela Yochem: it's not reasonable to expect that we're going to be a one stop shop for everything.
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Angela Yochem: But it is reasonable to expect that, if they want to have a robust digital health relationship with us, we should at least offer the equipment that they need to.
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Angela Yochem: Have remote monitoring in their homes that will to upload their vitals into our ehr at will.
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Angela Yochem: To you know, and that includes everything you know that can be done remotely we we will sell you a device to do all of that, if that's what you want, and by the way our philosophy in general, not just for device sales, but for other sorts of unconventional things that we do.
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Angela Yochem: Which i'll be happy to tell you more about we also use that revenue to fund the same capability for our patients who cannot afford to pay five yeah it is, it is you know, so we it's almost like a tom's or a bombus thing so.
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Angela Yochem: yeah this you're going to also fund this for two other family so it's.
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Michael Ames : That folks who aren't familiar with with Nevada maybe it's just just to be learning now about it from you may not be aware, you are a nonprofit.
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Michael Ames : system.
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Angela Yochem: Right hundred percent.
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Michael Ames : yeah and it's it's remarkable to see just how broad and nonprofit system can go and and can think.
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Michael Ames : When you're thinking broadly and I particularly like that idea of okay we've got a company here that's doing things revenue or margins from that are going back to help patients who may not be able to have access to those things.
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Michael Ames : that's that's a that's I think a unique and a really interesting interesting model i'm curious about something as you've brought these groups under one umbrella have there been instances.
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Michael Ames : Where these people who used to work in scattered ways, have been able to work together now in new and more effective ways or were culture from one part of your organization.
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Michael Ames : can affect the other so as digital health and it now coming into one changing either of those in in unexpected ways, whether positive or negative.
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Angela Yochem: Well, I have to cast my mind back I guess it's probably been about three years since we since we brought those teams together.
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Angela Yochem: But you know I think there were.
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Angela Yochem: I think you're right to ask the question.
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Angela Yochem: The people with whom we find ourselves in the trenches, so to speak, are the people from whom we learn the most and.
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Angela Yochem: Just having people in proximity working collectively on the same set of problems to deliver the same set of capabilities there's there's tremendous value from that and I think our team is very, very cohesive, I think the only thing that sometimes we stumble.
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Angela Yochem: Because I know I know you want to hear the dirt too.
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Angela Yochem: Is you know, sometimes we'll run across someone from another part of the organization, who will say.
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Angela Yochem: I don't know why it is running this or that or the other, we also have a new new business growth team, by the way, so we're responsible for all new business line generation may or may not have a technical component to it.
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Angela Yochem: i'm happy to talk more about that later, but that's part of how we think healthcare is transforming.
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Angela Yochem: fills a lot of that White space that no other clear entrance to the to the.
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Angela Yochem: To the playing field of healthcare is is tackling so some of those things every once in a while we'll some our call someone who just thinks well digital products and services that's it right what Why am I talking to someone from my team about a meal plan for our patient, you know.
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Angela Yochem: Well that's you know that but that's just legacy thinking and an educational.
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Michael Ames : It goes back to where you started, where one of the things that was a little frustrating what.
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Michael Ames : was an initial culture within the system of being like well that's a key right and and almost as a.
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Michael Ames : we've had conversations here at health impact about trying to get away from the idea of it as an organization, whose job is just to keep the lights on right.
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Michael Ames : And and and you and it's interesting that, even after the rebranding which we understand now goes much deeper than a rebranding to a consolidation of lots of very interesting and and different.
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Michael Ames : functional groups within the organization, even after all of that people still just think okay yeah digital products and services that still just it.
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Michael Ames : Why are they here working in this innovation.
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Michael Ames : I suppose I thought they were just here to fix the printer no.
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Angela Yochem: No, it happens it never happens at the top of the House i'll tell you that there's a there's a clear understanding and support for it, but the reason I was brought up.
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Angela Yochem: is because our CEO our board our executive team knows and believes in the importance of the capability set that we bring to the the future of healthcare.
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Angela Yochem: Not just to the future of our system so there's there's and I will say that that understanding and support you know flows down pretty far down the organization organizational chain but.
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Angela Yochem: In fairness, if you've if you've been heads down tackling a very specific item in a specific domain in the midst of you know, global pandemic, by the way for the last two years.
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Angela Yochem: It might be easy to miss that you know other parts of the organization are doing different things now so In fairness to the people who still occasionally make that comment it's a, it is a rapidly changing space and it's not fair to expect everyone to keep up with every single change.
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Michael Ames : Well, and this is a good moment for me to actually go back and correct something here, I think I introduced you as chief digital officer and left out the key word transformation right, you were recruited initial transformation and digital officer which.
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Michael Ames : means you're in the course of effecting change and in the course of that you're going to have people who come along.
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Michael Ames : A little bit more slowly, but as we've seen time and time again the fact that you can say that people at the top understand this get the vision they're not questioning why why you're playing in these spaces.
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Michael Ames : is essential and there's a whole other discussion that we should have on how it is that you helped to create that kind of culture at the top.
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Michael Ames : To make sure that as an IT leader you're getting all the support that you need top down hard problem to solve right, but an interesting one, that we could go into.
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Michael Ames : We have just a few minutes left and and it leads to actually this idea of how these different organizations within your organization or affecting each other.
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Michael Ames : kind of leads into this other sort of provocative concept that you have shared in the past about abandoning the notion of traditional.
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Michael Ames : Industry boundaries that's appealing to me my role at sada is to lead the healthcare and life science vertical but increasingly in my role and working to help.
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Michael Ames : lead our efforts across other vertical industries and looking at all the potential that can come when we start.
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Michael Ames : tying knots between them right we're letting one bleed into the other, so this is an area of interest for me goes back to your diverse industry background.
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Michael Ames : Tell us more and here's here's the perspective i'd like you to take it from most hospital it departments are just super busy.
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Michael Ames : running the business of the hospital and the hospital systems and keeping things going, how is that perspective of and boxing themselves from one industry.
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Michael Ames : helpful, how are they going to benefit from that line mindset and and what thoughts or advice, do you have on how they can achieve a broader scope and perspective.
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Angela Yochem: Well, you know I think when we learn as professionals right we we we don't always becomes a point at which we no longer just go to you know, a class.
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Angela Yochem: We don't take an online training class necessarily to learn to learn something we try to go and look more broadly oftentimes across our own industry.
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Angela Yochem: to learn what's being done in other places, and I think that's very important because it allows you to have you know some prior art, from which to pull your own creations in your own innovations.
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Angela Yochem: Very in a very, very applicable way, but I would remind folks that you there's so many interesting things happening across all the industry bounds and, in fact, if you look at the the trajectory of how business models are shifting.
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Angela Yochem: largely in my mind, because of the advances in technology and the proliferation of data as an engine, but as you look at these new business models that have emerged and how these lines between industries continue to blur.
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Angela Yochem: It becomes very interesting to think hey What are those just basic differentiating capabilities we should have.
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Angela Yochem: And who does that really, really well and let's go find who we can't find out what we can learn from that entity that entity may or may not be in your industry that entity may or may not be categorized in a single industry, I mean.
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Angela Yochem: You know, there was a time when Amazon was a bookstore for goodness sakes, I mean and there's 1000 million maybe examples of companies that span multiple traditional industry lines.
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Angela Yochem: I think it's also interesting when you move out of if you're in a domain space inside of a technology team supporting a healthcare organization.
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Angela Yochem: Remember that your job is not just to you know, keep that light keep that engine running.
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Angela Yochem: Your job is also to help the rest of the organization understand what's possible what they could be doing differently, how the patients could be impacted how the communities could be better engaged and and how overall health can be improved.
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Angela Yochem: And you have a visit you have a point of visibility that's not reasonable to expect anyone else to have because you're deep in technology, you understand the possibilities so much better than anyone else.
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Angela Yochem: So with that doesn't it make sense that you would be looking for those opportunities and not for expansion that don't.
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Angela Yochem: constrain themselves to what someone might describe is your right to win right to wins a big deal and industry terms right like well yeah you could do this.
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Angela Yochem: But you don't have a right to really do well in that space, because there are plenty of other people in that other space, and you know, even if you have a better offering no one's really going to come to you to do that thing.
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Angela Yochem: For example.
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Angela Yochem: Well i'm gonna say, for example, scratch that.
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Michael Ames : Oh, I think she just frozen.
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Michael Ames : Or maybe I just froze.
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Megan Antonelli: She froze you're good.
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Michael Ames : that's funny right right when.
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Megan Antonelli: I didn't mean actually pause.
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Megan Antonelli: yeah it is pausing.
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Michael Ames : The Ai in the system heard that it was like.
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Michael Ames : Okay.
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Megan Antonelli: give her a minute and see if she.
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Michael Ames : comes, by the way, I think in terms of.
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Michael Ames : You we lost you right when you said scratch that coincidentally, you said scratch that and zoom like okay i'm shutting down.
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With them.
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Angela Yochem: i'm going home i'm taking my ball.
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Michael Ames : yeah you were saying, for example.
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Angela Yochem: yeah and then I said scratch that okay yeah so.
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Michael Ames : We can pick up from there.
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Right.
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Angela Yochem: yeah I don't know where I spoke for like five more minutes.
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Michael Ames : I know you were great the the theme was around like why why shouldn't you as a technology thought leader think bigger than.
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Michael Ames : think bigger than the than the narrow confines and it's the right to win question, right now, do you want to go to an example they're just want to leave.
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Angela Yochem: I don't want to go to.
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Michael Ames : That, then, then we'll skip the example so and I think.
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Angela Yochem: I would cut out the right to win.
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Angela Yochem: piece, because it takes us down a path that's probably irrelevant for the people who are listening.
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Michael Ames : Essentially yeah I think I have a witness weekend the weekend sort of emphasize and tie a nice bow on what you said that which really is great and and and then we're down to like one minute and so we'll just we'll just wrap up and conclude.
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Michael Ames : So, give me a second here and i'll jump in on that.
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Michael Ames : So what I think is is really interesting about the story that we've casually told here in this conversation is how, at every step.
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Michael Ames : it's a matter of thinking, bigger than maybe what people have told you you're allowed to think right, so we start with talking about why shouldn't I think about just the HR.
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Michael Ames : And then we go big and we think why shouldn't I be thinking about just traditional it operations and now we're going bigger and you're saying.
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Michael Ames : Why should we just be stuck thinking about the way that healthcare has already done things when there are so many good ideas out there. part of what we love about the health impact audiences is that people who are listening to this by virtue of the fact that they're listening to this. Their thought leaders and thinkers and change and change makers within their organizations and what you're doing if I was going to summarize everything that you just said. it's give yourself permission to think bigger than the box that maybe you were set in when you arrived in the job right.And and and look to what else is out there that can help to actually create the transformation that your organization was looking to.
Angela Yochem: that's beautifully said.
Michael Ames : Well, we appreciate you bringing all of these great experiences and context and perspective to us again, I think that this is a conversation. That could be had with a lot of folks but you, coming as again a somewhat recent healthcare industry outsider into the industry and now talking about it, like you've been here your whole life through. It is a is a conversation that we could have with you that we couldn't have with with just everybody and so thank you, thank you for spending the time to the health impact audience, who spent time with us thank you as well, we hope that this has been well worth it for you and we look forward to meeting you in person and online someday on any number of future topics.
Angela Yochem: Thank you, Michael and thank you health impact it's been fun being with yo